(no subject)

[gwynhefar]

I have been reading, among other things, selections from the Harvard Classics, a 51-book set that was compiled by then-Harvard University President Charles W. Eliot in 1909. Elliot claimed that the set included everything needed for a well-rounded liberal education. The full set (which runs about $300, used) was my high school graduation present from my parents (yes it was what I had asked for - I am, in fact, that much of a geek). I have been making sadly slow progress in the 12 years since I received my present, largely because many of the selections, while worthwhile, are somewhat dull, and I really don't have that much time on my hands. I'm persevering, however, and imagine I'll be able to complete the set at least by the time I retire :)

One of my biggest complaints, however, is that Eliot clearly assumed the reader *already had* a liberal education, or what was considered one in 1909, and thus although all the actual text is in English, he does not feel the need to translate bits of Latin and French that show up in the text, and indeed often adds to the confusion in his own footnotes, such as the one I just came across.

It was a annotation to a line by Pliny in one of his letters: "As for myself, they will never be able to persuade me I can be guilty of an excess in friendship." Elliot's note observes that Balzac expresses a similar sentiment when he states, [insert long quotation in French]. *sigh* This leads to much time spent on online translators and my own limited knowledge of French to determine that Balzac quote roughly translates as "There are rivers which never do so much good as when they overflow; likewise, in friendship there is nothing better than excess."

So much work. Pah!

Comments

[wyyknot.livejournal.com]

Feel free to send me the French passages. I'll be happy to translate for you.

[gwynraven.livejournal.com]

Heh - I might take you up on that. I ended up googling the Balzac quote first, hoping someone had a translation online, but it seemed it was obscure enough that the only hits I got were actually *from* Balzac in the French. So I did a babelfish translation to get the basic idea and looked up the rest in my French dictionary. I may not have gotten in perfect, but I think I got the gist. Took a while though.

I have a basic reading comprehension of French (*very* basic - as in I can read the warning labels on electronics equipment and could probably manage a short news article, but flowery literary language is usually beyond me). I know some basic Latin word roots, but I know almost nothing of the grammar, so I can often figure out the nouns in a Latin sentence, but nothing else. It makes for serious frustration.

I rather *wish* at times we still lived in a period where Latin, at least, and possibly French or Greek, were considered essential for a basic education. If I'd been taught this stuff in grade school like people were in the last century, I wouldn't have such trouble now. Then I have to remind myself that if I had lived in the last century I probably wouldn't have been allowed to get an education at all, so I guess I'm better off :)

[wyyknot.livejournal.com]

My lament is that young people are no longer sent to 'Tour' other countries before they are considered 'out.' The two world wars pretty much put a stop to that. There is no way you can adequately appreciate American culture, freedom and diversity until you've lived in other cultures.

I was lucky. I was raised in Brazil, speaking Portuguese and English, took three years of HS French (which, oddly enough, finally grounded me in Brazilian grammar because the two are almost the same) and then majored in French in college, taking my senior year in France. I keep up with the language by reading all the French books I brought back with me and a few others I've acquired over the years, and by watching French movies.

My offer to translate is not because you didn't get it right, but to save you the time it took :)

[gwynraven.livejournal.com]

Oh I know. I appreciate it too :)

[malinaldarose.livejournal.com]

I hate that. I once read a book on the state of the Arthurian literature before Mallory and there was Latin and Greek all over the place. I can make a stumbling guess at Latin since I did study it, but I don't even know the Greek alphabet.

[gwynraven.livejournal.com]

I know the Greek alphabet, mostly, but not so well that I can simply look at a word in Greek and sound it out - usually I have to take one letter at a time and write down its English equivalent and then string them together - and then I still have to look up what the Greek word means! So I share your pain.

I'm interested - what was the book? I've always been rather interested in the Arthurian myths, but separating the 'real' Arthur from everything Mallory made up can be quite difficult for the amateur (which I most certain am).

[malinaldarose.livejournal.com]

Before Mallory: Reading Arthur in Later Medieval England by Richard J. Moll. It's very, very dry, very much an academic book and definitely not for the layman. I'm not quite sure why I hung onto it, even.

[gwynraven.livejournal.com]

Hmm . . . I'll see if the library has a copy. I can usually handle dry academics if I'm interested enough in the topic, but I wouldn't spend money on it :)

[malinaldarose.livejournal.com]

If you can't find a copy, I'll be happy to send you the one I have. I'll never read it again.

[gwynraven.livejournal.com]

I just checked - the library where I work has a copy, so unless I read it and decide I absolutely love it must own a copy (unlikely) you're welcome to keep yours :)

[malinaldarose.livejournal.com]

Ah, well. If you insist. ;-)